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This is purely about semantics, no?

bratboy wrote:

This is purely about semantics, no?

semantics is about meaning, which is about the truth of the matter, no?

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 4:01 pm)

ShnickyShnack wrote:

bratboy wrote:

This is purely about semantics, no?

No, not really. He had made a completely absurd claim that, since people claim refugee status in France in large numbers, it isn't racist. This in the face of polling that bedstuy provided, and a description of Jean-Marie La Pen, an extremely popular and very racist politician akin to David Duke (on a good day). However it seems he'd rather go after the poster than the discussion, which is a bummer.

yes, racist people let people of "other races" people in their borders.  the national front has nationalists, thanks for  letting me now.

by the way, what "race" is a north african muslim person?  an algerian?  a morrocan?

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 4:08 pm)

well,

since his logic was essentially becuase they have a candidate like david duke, it seems he is saying we are racst.  he's said it plenty often enough.

of course, a few months ago he swore he'd never have a discussion in a "racist thread," because its too personal and counter-productive.

that is, when he is discussing it, it is.

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 4:18 pm)

ShnickyShnack wrote:

bratboy wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

No, not really. He had made a completely absurd claim that, since people claim refugee status in France in large numbers, it isn't racist. This in the face of polling that bedstuy provided, and a description of Jean-Marie La Pen, an extremely popular and very racist politician akin to David Duke (on a good day). However it seems he'd rather go after the poster than the discussion, which is a bummer.

Right, but doesn't he want you to say that "some French people are racist," instead of "France is racist?"

I think it's a fair assessment.  I'd have no problem with someone saying "the United States is racist."

I'm not, but many are.

Wel, according to Beddie's poll, more than a third of French people consider themselves to be racist, which is a very high number indeed. You have to figure that if there are that many people who openly embrace the term, then lots of others share their beliefs but don't acknowledge it.

As for what the mole wants, I havn't a clue. I don't get the sense that he wants the "France is a racist country" idea to be qualified in any way; he seems to dispute the whole notion. Maybe it hits too close to home to him or something, I dunno. But trying to argue against it is completely absurd.

no, the article claims the poll asking questions the=at identified xenophobia and nationalism, which the bbc termed as racist.  do you know the poll questions?

WHAT DO I WANT?  wth are you getting at?

do you know what those questions were?

the BBC, they just love the french pride.

what race is a non-french person?

if le pen makes france racist, does david duke make the US racist?

you can refrain from calling me mole any time now, mr high road and deep waters.

and disagreeing with your polemical rants is now ABSURD!?

you've lost it man, you need a break.

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 4:32 pm)

more or less wrote:

no, the article claims the poll asking questions the=at identified xenophobia and nationalism, which the bbc termed as racist.  do you know the poll questions?

Wait...where does it say that?

bratboy wrote:

more or less wrote:

no, the article claims the poll asking questions the=at identified xenophobia and nationalism, which the bbc termed as racist.  do you know the poll questions?

Wait...where does it say that?

i dunno, perhaps you should quote it in full and we can look at the first paragraph together and poor over each and every word of the article.  an article ABOUT A POLL.

i have quoted the same sentence three times already.

if you do that, why dont you go the people who conducted the poll, and see if you can find the questions or the poll data?

go bratty go!

then, we can wax over "what is racism?"  and tackle what is the difference between assimilation and multicultural pluralism?

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 5:01 pm)

thanks for posting it in full.

World: Europe

France tops Euro racism poll

Jean-Marie Le Pen's French National Front Party has widespread support

A series of surveys carried out for official French organisations suggest that France is the most xenophobic of major European countries.

One survey found that 38% of French people described themselves as racist; among European Union countries only Belgium at 45% had a higher figure.

Some 23% of Germans 13% of Spaniards and 22% of those questioned in Britain had similar views.

In another poll, 40% said they were attracted by the policies of the National Front, whose leader, Jean Marie Le Pen campaigns on an anti-immigrant platform.

Wide support

The BBC correspondent in Paris says that although the extreme right-wing National Front normally attracts about 15% of the vote nation-wide, its views command far wider support.

The surveys (published in the Paris newspaper, Le Monde) found that racism was most common among farmers, shopkeepers and tradesman, and least prevalent among young people and the better-off.

But our correspondent says such findings need to be interpreted with care. Amongst young French in particular there is strong support for integration and an acceptance of the contribution - economic and cultural - immigrants make to the country.

my favorite part of that "one survey" finds how beligum has a higher number, but yet france is still on top somehow.  magic, and it "even say one poll" found that, as opposed to?

this things is a MESS of an article.  it states one poll in a "red state section" got this data, and BAM, france is RACIST!

NOTE:  the SURVEY OF THE POLLS SUPPORTS MY CLAIM ABOUT XENOPHOBIA!

of course, farmer, shopkeepers and tradesmen in a poll means FRANCE IS RACIST.

and, the strong acceptance of immigrant assimiltion is also, of course, racist.

as is letting in asylum seekers.

as is having one of the most diverse demographic data in europe.

as is having complete constitutional equality before the law.

nuts.

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 5:19 pm)

I just wonder who in the hell would admit to being a racist?  You could ask 100 KKK members and I bet you they won't even admit it.

bratboy wrote:

more or less wrote:

NOTE:  the SURVEY OF THE POLLS SUPPORTS MY CLAIM ABOUT XENOPHOBIA!

I don't see how.

A series of surveys carried out for official French organisations suggest that France is the most xenophobic of major European countries.

One survey found that 38% of French people described themselves as racist; among European Union countries only Belgium at 45% had a higher figure.

We really have no idea what exact language was used, but those two sentences make it seem more likely that the word "racist" was used, not "xenophobic."

so, you refute the survey of multiple polls, for one survey?  the one poll that likey is the one that gives the survey weight to make the claims "suggests XENPHIBOA"

the "poll" is the SUM OF THE SURVEYS, that is what that original le mond article was, a survey of POLLS,  with the farmers and shopkeeps and tradesmen now "being FRANCE" that is racist, from ONE SURVEY.  the poll is the MULITPLE SURVEYS,  PLURAL.

its right in front of you, and you still cannot parse it correctly.  its AMAIZING.

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 5:30 pm)

more or less wrote:

bratboy wrote:

more or less wrote:

NOTE:  the SURVEY OF THE POLLS SUPPORTS MY CLAIM ABOUT XENOPHOBIA!

I don't see how.

A series of surveys carried out for official French organisations suggest that France is the most xenophobic of major European countries.

One survey found that 38% of French people described themselves as racist; among European Union countries only Belgium at 45% had a higher figure.

We really have no idea what exact language was used, but those two sentences make it seem more likely that the word "racist" was used, not "xenophobic."

so, you refute the survey of multiple polls, for one survey?  the one poll that likey is the one that gives the survey weight to make the claims "suggests XENPHIBOA"

the "poll" is the SUM OF THE SURVEYS, that is what that original le mond article was, a survey of POLLS,  with the farmers and shopkeeps and tradesmen now "being FRANCE" that is racist, from ONE SURVEY.  the poll is the MULITPLE SURVEYS,  PLURAL.

its right in front of you, and you still cannot parse it correctly.  its AMAIZING.

Okay, you've ceased making sense. 

so, you refute the survey of multiple polls, for one survey?  the one poll that likey is the one that gives the survey weight to make the claims "suggests XENPHIBOA"

What in the hell does that even mean?  "Survey of multiple polls, for one survey?"

The word "poll" is not use in the article.  It speaks of a series of "surveys," one of which "found that 38% of French people described themselves as racist."

oh, so you [brattboy=you] cannot read and parse well.  gee, i am shocked.

World: Europe

France tops Euro racism poll

Jean-Marie Le Pen's French National Front Party has widespread support

A series of surveys carried out for official French organisations suggest that France is the most xenophobic of major European countries.

One survey found that 38% of French people described themselves as racist; among European Union countries only Belgium at 45% had a higher figure.

Some 23% of Germans 13% of Spaniards and 22% of those questioned in Britain had similar views.

In another poll, 40% said they were attracted by the policies of the National Front, whose leader, Jean Marie Le Pen campaigns on an anti-immigrant platform.

Wide support

The BBC correspondent in Paris says that although the extreme right-wing National Front normally attracts about 15% of the vote nation-wide, its views command far wider support.

The surveys [NOTE THE PLURAL] (published in the Paris newspaper, Le Monde) found that racism was most common among farmers, shopkeepers and tradesman, and least prevalent among young people and the better-off.

But our correspondent says such findings need to be interpreted with care. Amongst young French in particular there is strong support for integration and an acceptance of the contribution - economic and cultural - immigrants make to the country.

see,

here is a tip... you conduct a POLL by doing SURVEYS.  that what POLLS ARE.

a survey is a SUBSET of a POLL.  multiple polls aggrgated make for a LARGER SURVEY SET. or a larger overall aurvey.  a LARGE SURVERY OF POLLs yeilds -  now i am gonna get techincal here - a larger n value.

the n value is your SAMPLE. it is everybody who you responded to your survey.   the larger the sample, the HIGHER THE CONFIDENCE YOU CAN HAVE THAT YOU HAVE ADDRESSED SAMPLING ERROR.

my former professor at CAL STATE does it FOR A LIVING and i used to HELP HIM.


now then, if you want to know how one determine the margin of error, so you MORE OR LESS now what you have, ask MOI and i will tell you.

if you want the confidence interval [CI], you compare your sample to your POPULATION.

but hey, what do i know?  i am just an incoherent, rambling fool.  according, to people i disagree with.

funny that.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ME TO CLARIFY ANYTHING.

hint:  one survey has small "n", and is NOT GOOD DATA/

many srveys is BETTER DATA.  maybe even GOOD DATA.

again:

A series of surveys carried out for official French organisations suggest that France is the most xenophobic of major European countries.

is this CLEARer?

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 6:15 pm)

bratboy wrote:

Finished editing this?

more or less wrote:

here is a tip... you conduct a POLL by doing SURVEYS.  that what POLLS ARE.

a survey is a SUBSET of a POLL.  mutiple polls aggrgated make for a LARGER SURVEY.  a LARGE SURVERY OF POLLs yeilds -  now i am gonna get techincal here - a larger n value.

the n value is your SAMPLE. it is everybody who you responded to your survey.   the larger the sample, the HIGHER THE CONFIDENCE YOU CAN HAVE THAT YOU HAVE ADDRESSED SAMPLING ERROR.

my former professor at CAL STATE does it FOR A LIVING and i used to HELP HIM.

Thanks buddy, I took statistics.



You're assuming that some BBC article is 'correctly' using these words.  Look up "poll" in any  thesaurus.  Guess what you'll find listed?  "Survey."

he who said this

What in the hell does that even mean?  "Survey of multiple polls, for one survey?"

The word "poll" is not use in the article.  It speaks of a series of "surveys," one of which "found that 38% of French people described themselves as racist."

you cannot read, i have demonstrated it.

the word poll is used several times,a nd as i said that article is a MESS.  but he way, you just contradicted yourself with the definition, thanks.

should have looked it up before you asked that dumb ass question[s], eh?

you combine polls in a SURVEY... survey = collect data.   polls = results of survey[s]

damn, you are a thick one.

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-11 6:22 pm)