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lieven wrote:

-> There's quite a few people that have enough creativity and vivid fantasy to come up with a story. Most of us are also pretty good at improvising while acting, but sticking to a scenario might be harder to do, so I'm wondering how detailed we should go when writing a scenario. Any thoughts?

-> My biggest concern about the sound is wind as we will be filming outdoors most of the time. How can we make sure we don't get too much wind noise?
Is audio often recorded on another device than the camera, and mixed back together while editing?

-> Conversations are often filmed from quite a few different viewpoints, it seems to keep things interesting.. How should we do this? I'm concerned that recording conversations in a lot of pieces would make the final mix feel unnatural... But with 2 cameras filming the whole conversation at once, the viewpoints are limited...
Also, what are the options for making the sound feel natural, because with different viewpoints, I think there should also be a different sound level, panning,...

If you got this far, a big thanks for taking the time to read this long bullsmurf

1. Download some scripts online if you want to see how professional films are written. Once you have this, then you want to make story boards and shot lists. Planning ahead will save you time and frustration later.

2. Use a wind sock/screen. Dont shoot when there is lots of wind

3. If you are doing a standard OTS shot for your conversations, you record each side of the conversation seperatly. Basically, you will act it out twice, once from each side then edit it together in the end.

Some more tips

Read lots, join User Groups and Film Co-ops that offer courses and training. Keep on keepin on! Do a bunch of stuff, you will only learn from your mistakes. Thats how I started.

Last edited by emotionDV (2005-05-14 7:13 pm)

I may be making assumptions, but I'd think that someone who is looking for guidance to filmmaking might not understand some of the filmmaking jargon I'm seeing the responses. Specifically:

-shot lists link
-OTS link
-180? (180 degree) rule link

This, by the way, is a good filmmaking Q&A link.
And another.

It is actually normal to record sound to an external device, that is the reason for marking the beginning of each scene with the clapper - to have the means to sync the separate recorded audio with the visual ...

Cool, I have a friend who has a minidisc recorder, and I play in a band so we have a few microphones too.. I hope these will work.
Great idea about the clapper to sync.. I'll try both in advance to make sure it works as expected...

Hmmm... a soap?

i recommend reading this
http://www.exposure.co.uk/eejit/blood/index.html
(although one of the most important things is the person's reaction-- which those test videos aren't doing)

also, the 180 degree rule (which i call the "Holy Line") is well worth understanding

MB38 wrote:

Even if you don't have a slate [clapper], just have an actor clap his hands visibly in front of camera before every take.

Yep, I figured that would be the easiest solution

Also, record 10-30 seconds of room tone [when nobody is talking] to fill in the gaps in the conversation and/or to fix bad audio with.  Record room tone from every angle.  If the microphone moves, get more room tone.

Is this also done when recording outside?  The problem is we can't really clear the park we're in, so there will probably be other people making background noise anyway..

Keeping the microphones as close to the actors as possible will probably be the best way to go?

Another thing that will offer you down the line is the ability to cancel noise.  It will require more software than you have available now, but it's a good habit to have for when you do reach that level.

Sounds like a cool thing to do.. and if I'm not mistaken, it's just adding the inverted noise waves that should do the trick, right? (just the mathematician in me talking)
Seems like a nice feature that Apple should add to Final Cut if it's not availiable yet...

lieven wrote:

...but i've watched things I've filmed earlier, and it seems like I automatically stayed on one side of the holy line.. I might have watched too much television...

This brings up a good point. One really good way to learn is to actively watch movies and television. You may have done so and absorbed, subconsciously, the "correct" way to shoot and edit. An exercise, at this point, is maybe to watch a real "soap" (or any good character-focused narrative) with the sound turned off. As sound can get you engaged in the story, turning it off allows you to focus on the picture. Maybe some folks can recommend movies to watch for this exercise? I recently did this watching the series, "24." Very dramatic. There are a lot of shots where the camera focuses on the faces of the characters not talking, emphasizing the emotion of the scene. This kind of gives you a sense of how the actors have to perform, even when they're not delivering their lines.

Mercury52 wrote:

I would recommend getting a good severla minutes of park/beach ambience by itself.  Then you can lay it in asa background to help cover your cuts.

By the way, as MB38 brought up, this is what is known as "room tone." While you're on location, shoot or record a lot of "nothing." There is no such thing as "silence" unless you're in the vacuum of space. Every location, whether indoor or outdoor, has a characteristic ambience. The sound editor will love you if you consistently do this.

lieven wrote:

Our 'actors' are all quite expressive, and I think this is a good thing considering the target audience, but it will also be pretty hard to capture this, especially since they are not trained actors, so I think filming things twice or even 3 times will result in quite a few differences that might make editing difficult..

Even though it will be more time-consuming, you'll want to do each shot two or three times. Once you are editing, you'll probably see that Actor A's line in shot 1 goes great with Actor B's line in shot 2, both audio and video will be useful to you.

lieven wrote:

I just thought of something: as the cameras both have built-in microphones, I'll have the background noises for free.. I'll make sure I'll have lots of "nothing" though, even with video, which might help for transitions between scenes and stuff like that...

That will help, still, make sure you get a few minutes without the actors talking on your main sound-recording device. You'll need it later, trust me.

Oh yeah, no one has mentioned this, because it usually goes without saying, but you never know with a new guy: Get yourself a good pair of headphones to monitor your audio in the field.  Practice when you can before the shoot, learn what types and levels of noise come through in the captured audio.  Sometimes things can sound better/worse in the field than they really are, you just have to develop a good ear for it.  Have Fun!

my  brillant advice... since i was too lazy to read most of the replies is PLAN PLAN PLAN.  Plan out each of your sceens... now what shots you are going to need, and will be able to move your camera and lights as quickly as possible. 

with dialouge i tend to to at least 3 good takes so i can get all my "wides and reversals"  (each person and a longer shot with both.

in your copy of the skript to a quick rundown of where you want your shots any movement and how you are going to transition.  I've screwed myself over before with smurfy transitions and a lot of jump cuts.


sound outside shouldnt be bad if its not really windy and you can always find someone or thing as a windscreen.   I've had lots of reporters acting as human windscreens.

About the lights.. as we're shooting outside without any power source except batteries, I think we'll go with natural lighting.. I know about not trying to film against the sun and things like that (I have followed a photography course once). Any other things that could help with the lighting?

Lighting is an art and science. How to use them can't really be explained in a post. Proper lighting will give the shots a professional look. Sometimes the cost of lighting is too high for a given project. If it's not in your budget, stick with natural lighting. The theory is, natural lighting is uncontrolled, but ultimately looks better than an improper lighting. I've seen stuff where people just point a light at a subject just because they think it was necessary and it drew more attention to itself. Good lighting balances a shot, provides depth and emotion, and is ultimately "invisible." By the way, a good director of photography can help the director achieve this.

So you mean I should plan the editing before even filming? Or just have some kind of visual idea of how things should look in the end?

I'd say this is a tremendously important step to take if you're shooting a narrative. With a storyboard, you get a good sense of how the shots will look. From storyboards, you can create your shot list, which is basically a way to understand what angles are necessary for what scenes. Shot lists allow you to know what to shoot for any given angle and in what sequence. Using shot lists allow a director to shoot only what's necessary with as little "set up" as possible.

For example, let's say you have a three-minute dialogue piece that starts with a far shot of a couple walking and talking on a beach, then a medium tracking shot of them exchanging more dialog. They stop walking and face each other, at which point, the cameras do a back and forth over-the-shoulder shots. They start walking again, and the camera goes back to the medium tracking shot, then the scene ends with a far shot.

There are essentially three camera setups. The first is the far shot. In the far shot, you know that it is only needed for the opening and closing of the scene, so you shoot only what you'd see in the opening and closing--you don't have to have the actors say all the lines.

The second setup is the tracking shot. For this, the crew will have to set up tracks for the camera dolly. This tracking shot is only for when the couple are walking, so you only shoot those lines.

Then you have the third setup, which consists of two-camera, over-the-shoulder shots. You can have two cameras positioned in a way that they're out of each other's frame (the 180 degree rule helps here). Then you shoot only the lines that happen when the couple are standing still.

Because you planned ahead with a shot list, you were able to take care of the opening and closing far shots, you didn't have to set up again when the couple continued walking, and you didn't waste time filming lines you knew weren't going to be used in the given shot. Ultimately, you saved time and labor. This is what allows you to maximize the number of takes without shooting superfluous footage. Given unlimited time, expense and energy, a shot list is less important, but once you realize the benefits of pre-planning (and in a way, pre-editing), you'll get a lot more done in less time.

then it will probably be best not to use a boom pole but microphones next to the camera pointed in the direction of the actors?

Not necessarily. Proximity is all-important. For dialogue, you want to get the microphone close to the actors. The closer you are to the sound source, the less background noise you pick up. That's why you always see a boom pole above actors in behind-the-scenes stuff. If you want more background noise and less of the sound source, you can mix in more room tone (remember this?) after the fact, but you can't bring up the dialog and reduce the background noise effectively if you have the microphone by the camera. In short, you're better off using a boom pole. If wind is an issue, there are zeppelins and wind jammers you can use with a boom setup. You can find this stuff online. As mentioned, you can use "people" to block the wind, as long as that person is a. in the shot (if one of the actors or extras) or b) out of camera range and not blocking the light.

By the way, this may not have been mentioned, but you don't necessarily have to buy all the equipment. Depending on the budget and the scope of the project, you can rent equipment. In fact this is the most common and cost-effective way of using professional gear without having the pay full price for them. Another thing is you can hire crew people. This allows the director to focus on directing and not have to know every aspect of the cameras, audio and lighting equipment. Basically, let the pros handle their area of expertise. Again, this may be beyond the scope of your project, but it's something to stuff into your notes for the future.

You asked if you can monitor to Minidisc while recording.  You can.  I did this for some work.  I was recording to MD.  I had Sennheiser shotgun mic into Shure mixer into MD recorder.  Don't recall offhand if I had my headphones plugged into my mixer or the MD though.  It can be done though!