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#1 2005-04-07 11:15 pm

Pundit Guy
Member
From: Minneapolis
Registered: 2004-07-12
Posts: 358

We do really, really need to fix the health care system

ShnickyShnack wrote:

You guys really, really need to fix your health care system.

I didn't want to hijack the bankruptcy thread, but I had to share this.

Minneapolis Star Tribune wrote:

CEO paywatch: UnitedHealth Group's McGuire sells options to reap $124.8 million

William McGuire, chairman and CEO

Total compensation: $124,773,691 for the year ended Dec. 31

Salary: $2,176,923

Bonus: $5,550,000

Other compensation: $596,936

Restricted stock: $1,897,000

Exercised stock options: $114,552,832

New stock options: 1,300,000 shares

The bulk of McGuire's compensation comes from the exercise of stock options. He continues to get new option grants and sits on 13.5 million exercisable options -- valued at $1 billion -- and 3.25 million unexercisable options.

Upon retirement, McGuire also will be eligible for a supplemental retirement benefit of about $5.1 million per year.

According to the company's proxy statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, UnitedHealth's compensation committee believes "that the design of the company's compensation plans successfully motivates the company's executives."

I am beyond appalled. I seem to remember that the best-paid person in the entire state of Minnesota last year was the CEO of Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Why are my premiums paying for this, and not for the hole in SpacemanSpiff's daughter's heart?

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#2 2005-04-07 11:29 pm

ShnickyShnack
::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
From: Rockin' out
Registered: 2001-05-25
Posts: 22237

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

Your whole health care system seems completely insane to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those insufferable we-have-free-health-care-and-you-guys-suck Canadians (well, okay, I'm not entirely one of those Canadians), but the whole thing is just nuts.

It's not hard to get Americans to care about baseball teams and celebrity divorces and wars and taxes and deficits and gay marriage and abortion and gun control, but not health care. But health care affects their very frickin' existence! Why aren't people jumping up and down, either to say the system works and not to change it, or the whole thing is a shambles and needs to be fixed?

Here in Canada, even the boldest politician has to tread very carefully on the subject, because it's the number one issue in the country. But not in the States. Why?


Note: please delete this post.

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#3 2005-04-07 11:44 pm

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

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#4 2005-04-07 11:49 pm

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

Would you please shut the f*ck up with your anti-liberal bullsh*it. God damn, you're like a broken record.

There is a problem with the health care in this country. Either attempt to be a part of figuring out the solution, or sit on the sidelines and keep to your mypoic self. I don't care which one you choose.

Just choose.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

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#5 2005-04-07 11:51 pm

jax
Teh God Of Awesomeness
From: Lego Death Star
Registered: 2003-10-03
Posts: 2307

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

What the hell was that all about? Look free enterprise is all fine and good but doesn't something seem outta' whack when the nations wealthiest only constitute something like 1%? I think it's pretty fair to say that there is some room for change in the health care system. Or do you feel that only the wealthy should be entitled to live on with the benefit of modern medicine? Do those that are too poor to afford things like chemo-therapy or major surgery simply just have to die? I don't really think American Democracy would collapse into communism just by reforming health care. Come on dude, lighten up a little.


In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
                                       -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#6 2005-04-07 11:51 pm

matt
a very bad matt
Registered: 1999-09-16
Posts: 16688
Website

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

The real reason healthcare costs so much is because of the lawyers. If there weren't so many frivolous lawsuits, healthcare and prescription drugs would be much cheaper.


Being loud: The next best thing to being right.

Do not click here.

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#7 2005-04-07 11:55 pm

Pundit Guy
Member
From: Minneapolis
Registered: 2004-07-12
Posts: 358

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

matt wrote:

The real reason healthcare costs so much is because of the lawyers. If there weren't so many frivolous lawsuits, healthcare and prescription drugs would be much cheaper.

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.

One hundred and twenty-five million dollars. To just ONE guy. At ONE HMO. In ONE year.

Last edited by Pundit Guy (2005-04-07 11:56 pm)

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#8 2005-04-08 12:02 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

iBubba wrote:

gradient wrote:

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

Would you please shut the f*ck up with your anti-liberal bullsh*it. God damn, you're like a broken record.

There is a problem with the health care in this country. Either attempt to be a part of figuring out the solution, or sit on the sidelines and keep to your mypoic self. I don't care which one you choose.

Just choose.

What brilliant solutions should I have countered to my own? All I saw was a socialist complaining about how a person is making money.

The whole solution is in stopping the lawyers and the Democrats they pay off.

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#9 2005-04-08 12:05 am

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

iBubba wrote:

gradient wrote:

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

Would you please shut the f*ck up with your anti-liberal bullsh*it. God damn, you're like a broken record.

There is a problem with the health care in this country. Either attempt to be a part of figuring out the solution, or sit on the sidelines and keep to your mypoic self. I don't care which one you choose.

Just choose.

What brilliant solutions should I have countered to my own? All I saw was a socialist complaining about how a person is making money.

The whole solution is in stopping the lawyers and the Democrats they pay off.

Here's an idea: pull your head out of your ass.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

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#10 2005-04-08 12:05 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

jax wrote:

gradient wrote:

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

What the hell was that all about? Look free enterprise is all fine and good but doesn't something seem outta' whack when the nations wealthiest only constitute something like 1%? I think it's pretty fair to say that there is some room for change in the health care system. Or do you feel that only the wealthy should be entitled to live on with the benefit of modern medicine? Do those that are too poor to afford things like chemo-therapy or major surgery simply just have to die? I don't really think American Democracy would collapse into communism just by reforming health care. Come on dude, lighten up a little.

I'm more than happy to see American democracy collapse because Americans shouldn't have it. It is people like you and comments like these that reinforce my belief in what the US forefathers had in mind, not the joke of a government we have today.

Why don't you look into what the nation's wealthiest are paying proportionately. Most importantly, what they do with their money. There is nothing like trying to take money from investors and whining about employment.

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#11 2005-04-08 12:06 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

Pundit Guy wrote:

matt wrote:

The real reason healthcare costs so much is because of the lawyers. If there weren't so many frivolous lawsuits, healthcare and prescription drugs would be much cheaper.

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.

One hundred and twenty-five million dollars. To just ONE guy. At ONE HMO. In ONE year.

Gosh, we should make it against the law to make so much money!!

If you don't like it, don't be part of that HMO in any way.
I'm sorry, that would require responsiblity.

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#12 2005-04-08 12:07 am

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

jax wrote:

gradient wrote:

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

What the hell was that all about? Look free enterprise is all fine and good but doesn't something seem outta' whack when the nations wealthiest only constitute something like 1%? I think it's pretty fair to say that there is some room for change in the health care system. Or do you feel that only the wealthy should be entitled to live on with the benefit of modern medicine? Do those that are too poor to afford things like chemo-therapy or major surgery simply just have to die? I don't really think American Democracy would collapse into communism just by reforming health care. Come on dude, lighten up a little.

I'm more than happy to see American democracy collapse because Americans shouldn't have it. It is people like you and comments like these that reinforce my belief in what the US forefathers had in mind, not the joke of a government we have today.

Why don't you look into what the nation's wealthiest are paying proportionately. Most importantly, what they do with their money. There is nothing like trying to take money from investors and whining about employment.

Hey! While you're at it, please preach on about how "trickle down economics" really does work!

Once again: be a part of the solution or shut up.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

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#13 2005-04-08 12:08 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

iBubba wrote:

gradient wrote:

jax wrote:


What the hell was that all about? Look free enterprise is all fine and good but doesn't something seem outta' whack when the nations wealthiest only constitute something like 1%? I think it's pretty fair to say that there is some room for change in the health care system. Or do you feel that only the wealthy should be entitled to live on with the benefit of modern medicine? Do those that are too poor to afford things like chemo-therapy or major surgery simply just have to die? I don't really think American Democracy would collapse into communism just by reforming health care. Come on dude, lighten up a little.

I'm more than happy to see American democracy collapse because Americans shouldn't have it. It is people like you and comments like these that reinforce my belief in what the US forefathers had in mind, not the joke of a government we have today.

Why don't you look into what the nation's wealthiest are paying proportionately. Most importantly, what they do with their money. There is nothing like trying to take money from investors and whining about employment.

Hey! While you're at it, please preach on about how "trickle down economics" really does work!

Once again: be a part of the solution or shut up.

The liberal economic system, however, is brilliant. You take money from investors, funnel it into healthcare and then give it to the lawyers.

So much production there!

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#14 2005-04-08 12:11 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry
SOMEONE IS MAKING MORE MONEY THAN I AM!!!!!
cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry

I wish I made something of myself instead of being a stupid pot-smoking liberal that complains about gay rights and captialism on the internet all day.

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#15 2005-04-08 12:11 am

jax
Teh God Of Awesomeness
From: Lego Death Star
Registered: 2003-10-03
Posts: 2307

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

jax wrote:

gradient wrote:

Because your healthcare system sucks and doesn't look appealing either.

We can have our crappy system or your system and it seems Americans prefer ours.

How totally awful that guy is actually making money. How dare he!

Everyone should get paid the same and have zero ambition as a result. Isn't that what you liberals are all about?

What the hell was that all about? Look free enterprise is all fine and good but doesn't something seem outta' whack when the nations wealthiest only constitute something like 1%? I think it's pretty fair to say that there is some room for change in the health care system. Or do you feel that only the wealthy should be entitled to live on with the benefit of modern medicine? Do those that are too poor to afford things like chemo-therapy or major surgery simply just have to die? I don't really think American Democracy would collapse into communism just by reforming health care. Come on dude, lighten up a little.

I'm more than happy to see American democracy collapse because Americans shouldn't have it. It is people like you and comments like these that reinforce my belief in what the US forefathers had in mind, not the joke of a government we have today.

Why don't you look into what the nation's wealthiest are paying proportionately. Most importantly, what they do with their money. There is nothing like trying to take money from investors and whining about employment.

Dude, seriously...
People like me? How do you have any insight as to what kind of person I am? So you're content to see America's collapse simply because there are some people you don't agree with? Some one has territorial issues...
So, you're insight into American History holds access to some sort of information the rest of us have been denied? The founding fathers were in fact totally against equality? Maybe you should think through your comments when you feel so emotionally charged. Everyone else has had to control themselves and for the most part gotten along. Seriously, I take offense to that kind of stuff. 'People like you...' Whatever dude, good luck with that big ass chip on your shoulder.


In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
                                       -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#16 2005-04-08 12:13 am

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

iBubba wrote:

gradient wrote:

I'm more than happy to see American democracy collapse because Americans shouldn't have it. It is people like you and comments like these that reinforce my belief in what the US forefathers had in mind, not the joke of a government we have today.

Why don't you look into what the nation's wealthiest are paying proportionately. Most importantly, what they do with their money. There is nothing like trying to take money from investors and whining about employment.

Hey! While you're at it, please preach on about how "trickle down economics" really does work!

Once again: be a part of the solution or shut up.

The liberal economic system, however, is brilliant. You take money from investors, funnel it into healthcare and then give it to the lawyers.

So much production there!

What is this "you" sh*t? I'm not in Congress or the White House, am I? You have no f*cking clue what my fiscal policies/beliefs are, do you? Before you start pointing fingers, mister, take a hard look at the spending policies of your president and administration and then attempt to convince me that "neo-cons" are fiscally conservative.

Further: Precisely how are "liberals" taking money from investors and funneling it into healthcare and lawyers? Feel free to use flow charts and graphs. I am dying - absolutely f*cking BESIDE myself - to hear this one! lol

Last edited by iBubba (2005-04-08 12:16 am)


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

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#17 2005-04-08 12:13 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

jax wrote:

Dude, seriously...
People like me? How do you have any insight as to what kind of person I am? So you're content to see America's collapse simply because there are some people you don't agree with? Some one has territorial issues...
So, you're insight into American History holds access to some sort of information the rest of us have been denied? The founding fathers were in fact totally against equality? Maybe you should think through your comments when you feel so emotionally charged. Everyone else has had to control themselves and for the most part gotten along. Seriously, I take offense to that kind of stuff. 'People like you...' Whatever dude, good luck with that big ass chip on your shoulder.

Oh yeah, they were all for equality, but not in the sense your idols like Stalin, Lenin and Castro say.

They knew people were stupid and gave them limited representation. They didn't use government to steal money from the rich and give to special interests and trial lawyers, as you seem to want.

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#18 2005-04-08 12:14 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

iBubba wrote:

gradient wrote:

iBubba wrote:


Hey! While you're at it, please preach on about how "trickle down economics" really does work!

Once again: be a part of the solution or shut up.

The liberal economic system, however, is brilliant. You take money from investors, funnel it into healthcare and then give it to the lawyers.

So much production there!

What is this "you" sh*t? I'm not in Congress or the White House, am I? You have no f*cking clue what my fiscal policies/beliefs are, do you? Before you start pointing fingers, mister, take a hard look at the spending policies of your president and administration and then[/t] attempt to convince me that "neo-cons" are fiscally [b]conservative.

Oh, that's right! If I'm not a flaming liberal, I must just love Bush's economic policies.

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#19 2005-04-08 12:15 am

jax
Teh God Of Awesomeness
From: Lego Death Star
Registered: 2003-10-03
Posts: 2307

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry
SOMEONE IS MAKING MORE MONEY THAN I AM!!!!!
cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry

I wish I made something of myself instead of being a stupid pot-smoking liberal that complains about gay rights and captialism on the internet all day.

Bravo sir. That was brilliant. You are truly ready for the big time. Let's get you on Hardball and Meet The Press right away. With debating skills like that, the world shall most certainly be your oyster. I humble myself before your omnipotent wisdom.

Just remember what happens when the rich stay rich and the poor get poorer. Eventually, they stop crying and start looking for revolution. Then again, I guess since it happened in France the rules of human nature and history don't apply to us.


In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
                                       -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#20 2005-04-08 12:17 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

Yes, and democracies start to fail because one group of people find out they can take money from everyone else and begins robbing the treasury.

Seriously, how pathetic to you have to be to complain about how much money someone is making?

No one is stopping you from doing the same.

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#21 2005-04-08 12:18 am

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

I wish I made something of myself instead of being a stupid pot-smoking liberal that complains about gay rights and captialism on the internet all day.

...meaning to be like you? What are you? Whatever it is, no f*cking thanks.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

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#22 2005-04-08 12:19 am

iBubba
Displaced
From: central Iowa
Registered: 2000-10-06
Posts: 7109

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

Yes, and democracies start to fail because one group of people find out they can take money from everyone else and begins robbing the treasury.

Really. So that's how it works. Thanks much for the insight.


"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus

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#23 2005-04-08 12:20 am

jax
Teh God Of Awesomeness
From: Lego Death Star
Registered: 2003-10-03
Posts: 2307

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

gradient wrote:

jax wrote:

Dude, seriously...
People like me? How do you have any insight as to what kind of person I am? So you're content to see America's collapse simply because there are some people you don't agree with? Some one has territorial issues...
So, you're insight into American History holds access to some sort of information the rest of us have been denied? The founding fathers were in fact totally against equality? Maybe you should think through your comments when you feel so emotionally charged. Everyone else has had to control themselves and for the most part gotten along. Seriously, I take offense to that kind of stuff. 'People like you...' Whatever dude, good luck with that big ass chip on your shoulder.

Oh yeah, they were all for equality, but not in the sense your idols like Stalin, Lenin and Castro say.

They knew people were stupid and gave them limited representation. They didn't use government to steal money from the rich and give to special interests and trial lawyers, as you seem to want.

Thank you Gimli. I didn't know for sure who my idols were. Once I learn to read, I'll find out who those one people's were you mentioned. Thanks for setting me straight.

All I said was that there was room for change in our health care system. Which is in itself a rather ambigous statement. For, what exists that doesn't stand a chance of benefitting from change? However, I thank you for instantly labeling me a Communist sympathizer. Somewhere,  up there in the great beyond, McCarthy is smiling down on you.


In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
                                       -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#24 2005-04-08 12:21 am

matt
a very bad matt
Registered: 1999-09-16
Posts: 16688
Website

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

Pundit Guy wrote:

matt wrote:

The real reason healthcare costs so much is because of the lawyers. If there weren't so many frivolous lawsuits, healthcare and prescription drugs would be much cheaper.

Please tell me you were being sarcastic.

One hundred and twenty-five million dollars. To just ONE guy. At ONE HMO. In ONE year.

Guy's gotta eat.


Being loud: The next best thing to being right.

Do not click here.

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#25 2005-04-08 12:22 am

gradient
Member
Registered: 2002-04-24
Posts: 3101

Re: We do really, really need to fix the health care system

jax wrote:

Thank you Gimli. I didn't know for sure who my idols were. Once I learn to read, I'll find out who those one people's were you mentioned. Thanks for setting me straight.

All I said was that there was room for change in our health care system. Which is in itself a rather ambigous statement. For, what exists that doesn't stand a chance of benefitting from change? However, I thank you for instantly labeling me a Communist sympathizer. Somewhere,  up there in the great beyond, McCarthy is smiling down on you.

You gave it away with your perverted view of 'equality'.

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