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#1 2004-12-04 11:56 pm

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Weighing

I've been questioning the wisdom of spending so much time and energy in these forums, particularly given how frequently the products of my time and effort vanish.

The loss of nearly one year's posts, in combination with the locking spree, the loss of topics due to the conversion to the new software, specious arguments about "zombie" ideas and "soapboxing", and the possible loss of topics due to a timed auto-deletion abyss (topics being deleted when they reach a certain age), etc. ... it's too much.

For those who will post inane snipes like "sure... you've said you're leaving before" or "don't let the door hit you on the way out", be aware that I will not return and that there is a difference between saying "I'm leaving" when meaning "I'm leaving temporarily; I need a break" and "I'm leaving permanently". I've posted here since 1999, or perhaps 1998. So, it is a big decision to leave permanently. As for the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" angle, it's up to anyone who says that to either appreciate the contributions I've made here or to completely discount them. It's also possible to spend more time focusing on the issues I raise here. But, if personal attacks are your cachet, realize that I've been met with innumerable barbs.

I think it's a good thing that MacAddict/publisher tolerates, (to a point), political discourse. But, it's very bad that those who endeavor to discuss important issues are faced with such a risk of their efforts yielding emptiness, due to deletions. It's not amusing to be asked to reinvent the wheel, and then be asked to do that again, and again, and again. I'm not sure the MacAddict forum format is suitable for political discourse. There is extreme inefficiency, due to the undervaluation of credible posts and topics as well as illogical short-attention span thinking like "zombie X" and a bafflingly arbitrary moderation system.

I'm not sure if I should continue to contribute to a system I find quite shoddy. My friends think it's foolish. I've told them that I find political discourse here valuable sometimes, particularly because it's nearly impossible to have serious political discussions with my friends (because they don't have the necessary interest in politics).

I'm uninterested in forum politics, like "Gee GUI, you're swell" or "gee, I think you suck because you lost the topics". Similarly, I've critiqued the moderation of Oatmeal, Neut, and others without worrying about currying favor or trying to unfairly assert my will. I simply have a problem with facing an abyss, having my efforts rendered futile, by a combination of intentional and unintentional deletions.

Contrary to revisionist history, I have spent a lot of time and effort creating topics and posts. I realize that I should have archived them. But, I mistakenly trusted MacAddict's staff. That trust was a combination of laziness and na


there's really no need for all of this

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#2 2004-12-05 12:04 am

Tria
Minor Prophetess
From: Madison, WI
Registered: 2000-05-13
Posts: 18087

Re: Weighing

These forums are like a political system - they're not perfect, and never will be.  You cannot create a system to conform to the ideals of one person because everybody else who has to live within that system will hate it.

Obviously you realize that if you don't like it here, you should leave.  So what do you hope to generate with this topic?  It's not like anybody is giggling with glee at the lost of a year's worth of posts. 

You've complained, but you haven't helped the situation, nor have you offered any solution to the problem, aside from "impliment all my changes" (see above comment about "living with the system").

BTW, if you think you are spending valuable time and energy on these forums, you need to reexamine your priorities.  It's just the internet, and your resources can probably be better used elsewhere.

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#3 2004-12-05 12:10 am

debbiedowner
Member
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: 2004-11-21
Posts: 2149

Re: Weighing

Clearly this forum has been important to you, but I really don't understand why you're upset that the "archives" were lost. To me it seems that the majority of posts are like songs sung but not recorded. After all, -- what a tiny number of songs in the history of people singing have been recorded, have been worthy of being recorded? Like all the songs sung in the history of the world, some have been off-key, some silly ditties, many unfinished, most with artless lyrics, and few with such good import that they should be recorded archivally.
   I think you must be young to use such a ridiculous word as permanently. If you need to take a break from the forum, go, grow. Check in from time to time. I think you have probably made friends here but will elsewhere too. Your immortality is not to be found in cyberposts, however: it's to be found in how you love others in your everyday life outside your room, away from your computer. If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. Find a forum that will help you grow. Find a lifestyle that will help you practice compassion. Come back to this forum. There is no door on it to swing and hit you either on the way out or the way back in. Don't expect appreciation; you only get appreciation when you don't expect it.


Last edited by debbiedowner (Today 12:61 a.m.)
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

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#4 2004-12-05 12:11 am

Freezer mac
iPod scroll wheel
From: next to a big cold lake.
Registered: 2001-01-06
Posts: 7370

Re: Weighing


BTW, if you think you are spending valuable time and energy on these forums, you need to reexamine your priorities.  It's just the internet, and your resources can probably be better used elsewhere.

you're one to talk, with over 15000 posts, 9+ posts per day, and 2% of the entire posts on the boards tongue

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#5 2004-12-05 12:13 am

Tria
Minor Prophetess
From: Madison, WI
Registered: 2000-05-13
Posts: 18087

Re: Weighing

I think you have probably made friends here but will elsewhere too.

Don't expect appreciation; you only get appreciation when you don't expect it.

Perfect.

you're one to talk, with over 15000 posts, 9+ posts per day, and 2% of the entire posts on the boards

Yeah, but I don't give a crap.  XYZ clearly does.

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#6 2004-12-05 12:13 am

Freezer mac
iPod scroll wheel
From: next to a big cold lake.
Registered: 2001-01-06
Posts: 7370

Re: Weighing

Clearly this forum has been important to you, but I really don't understand why you're upset that the "archives" were lost. To me it seems that the majority of posts are like songs sung but not recorded. After all, -- what a tiny number of songs in the history of people singing have been recorded, have been worthy of being recorded? Like all the songs sung in the history of the world, some have been off-key, some silly ditties, many unfinished, most with artless lyrics, and few with such good import that they should be recorded archivally.
   I think you must be young to use such a ridiculous word as permanently. If you need to take a break from the forum, go, grow. Check in from time to time. I think you have probably made friends here but will elsewhere too. Your immortality is not to be found in cyberposts, however: it's to be found in how you love others in your everyday life outside your room, away from your computer. If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. Find a forum that will help you grow. Find a lifestyle that will help you practice compassion. Come back to this forum. There is no door on it to swing and hit you either on the way out or the way back in. Don't expect appreciation; you only get appreciation when you don't expect it.

you're a relative newbie here...
loosing a years worth of posts may not seem like a big deal to you now, but try saying that in a year (if you are still around then.)

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#7 2004-12-05 12:18 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing

Wait, XYZ is blaming someone else for something?

Where is it that I'm supposed to be impressed?


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#8 2004-12-05 12:19 am

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Re: Weighing

BTW, if you think you are spending valuable time and energy on these forums, you need to reexamine your priorities. It's just the internet, and your resources can probably be better used elsewhere.

A person's time and energy are valuable. "It's just the Internet." What is that supposed to mean?

Your resources can probably be better used elsewhere.

That's the point is this topic, the point that eluded you, hence your question "what do you expect to accomplish with this topic?". I expect to accomplish "weighing". That's clear, via the topic's title and post content; it's clear to me, at least.

Yeah, but I don't give a crap. XYZ clearly does.

I've asked you why you post in this forum. Unplugged seems to be more fitting. I care about politics, because life is political.


there's really no need for all of this

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#9 2004-12-05 12:20 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing


I've asked you why you post in this forum.

Because it's her MacAddict-given right.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#10 2004-12-05 12:21 am

Tetrachloride
❖ ❖ ❖
Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: Weighing

Remain calm everyone.  There's probably going to be forum updates to include the missing 10 months.

I take a good glance at nearly all of the MiniThink threads, even the ones dominated by neo-cons.   Not everyone can tho.  So, for most people it's hit or miss if they follow a topic.  We regulars know who the regulars are.  As for me, I hope there are more regulars and drop-ins through-out the forums.

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#11 2004-12-05 12:21 am

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Re: Weighing

Wait, XYZ is blaming someone else for something?

Where is it that I'm supposed to be impressed?

Do you have a legitimate question to pose that can be answered, or only impossibly vague barbs?


there's really no need for all of this

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#12 2004-12-05 12:25 am

Tria
Minor Prophetess
From: Madison, WI
Registered: 2000-05-13
Posts: 18087

Re: Weighing

BTW, if you think you are spending valuable time and energy on these forums, you need to reexamine your priorities. It's just the internet, and your resources can probably be better used elsewhere.

A person's time and energy are valuable. "It's just the Internet." What is that supposed to mean?

THat if you're expending resources that you feel are too valuable to risk losing in a database crash, you should probably be doing something better with them.  In other words, if you place such a great importance on this forum that the loss of posts is more than fleeting emotional response to you, you need to find a better place to channel your efforts.

Yeah, but I don't give a crap. XYZ clearly does.

I've asked you why you post in this forum. Unplugged seems to be more fitting. I care about politics, because life is political.

Well, presumably it would be because I'm interested in politics as well.  But that answer might be a little obvious. sneaky  lol

If you prefer, you can think I'm here solely for the purpose of derailing your topics.

Remain calm everyone. There's probably going to be forum updates to include the missing 10 months.

No, tehre's not.  GUI's said that quite clearly.

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#13 2004-12-05 12:26 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing

Wait, XYZ is blaming someone else for something?

Where is it that I'm supposed to be impressed?

Do you have a legitimate question to pose that can be answered, or only impossibly vague barbs?

Barb is the name of my video store lady. It also tends to be a favorite design of some dildos I've seen or, hell, own.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#14 2004-12-05 12:27 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing


If you prefer, you can think I'm here solely for the purpose of derailing your topics.

Hey, that's what I'm here for you {insert some derogatory bad word name here}.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#15 2004-12-05 12:36 am

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Re: Weighing

I don't have any more time to deal with illogical rhetoric, like "I don't give a crap" followed with "I care about politics, duh", or responses like "it's her right to post in the MiniThink" when the question I posed has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone can post somewhere. The "because I said so/might makes right/because she can" argument is not sound.


there's really no need for all of this

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#16 2004-12-05 12:39 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing

I don't have any more time to deal with illogical rhetoric, like "I don't give a crap" followed with "I care about politics, duh", or responses like "it's her right to post in the MiniThink" when the question I posed has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone can post somewhere. The "because I said so/might makes right/because she can" argument is not sound.

Because, you know, I have to use concrete logic when you're dealing with your emotions of misplaced time management. Right.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#17 2004-12-05 12:40 am

Tria
Minor Prophetess
From: Madison, WI
Registered: 2000-05-13
Posts: 18087

Re: Weighing

See, and this is why people don't like you.  You refuse to discuss.  You have to be right, all the time, and if you're not, you just try to end the discussion.

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#18 2004-12-05 12:41 am

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Re: Weighing

you refuse to truly discuss them.

Wrong. I've spent a huge amount of time in many topics discussing things. One example, of many, is the Leviticus topic that mainly consisted of ResEdit and myself. It went to 14 or 15 pages. That is just one of many many topics that I contributed in heavily. I'm annoyed by the silly revisionist history.

*The most recent example is that thread where you seemed to refuse to acknowledge that there was anything different at all between a gay marriage and a straight marriage.

Marriage is marriage. You said there are two terms. I pointed out, correctly, that you are using a single term... marriage. You are not using two terms.

The only difference between same-sex marriage and opposite-sex marriage is the fact that same-sex marriage is a marriage between two people who have the same sex, and opposite-sex marriage is a marriage between two people who are of the opposite sex. Both are marriage.


there's really no need for all of this

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#19 2004-12-05 12:42 am

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Re: Weighing

See, and this is why people don't like you.  You refuse to discuss.  You have to be right, all the time, and if you're not, you just try to end the discussion.

I don't care to waste time on you and Phydeux. There are people here who I enjoy debating with, including people I find annoyingly tenacious. Those people, unlike the two of you, are less like Lenny and Squiggy and more like Laverne and Shirley.


there's really no need for all of this

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#20 2004-12-05 12:43 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing

I'm annoyed by the silly revisionist history.

If you leave, you're going to have to get used to it.

Unless you want to go for an attitude adjustment, you'll be known as "The Gay Nazi" as penned by... "the winners", if that's what you want to call them. Namely people left behind who's perception you've created in their minds will refer to you as.

You can either let it bother you, fix it, or continue on and shrug it off ---'cause you're "right".


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

Offline

 

#21 2004-12-05 12:44 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing

See, and this is why people don't like you.  You refuse to discuss.  You have to be right, all the time, and if you're not, you just try to end the discussion.

I don't care to waste time on you and Phydeux. There are people here who I enjoy debating with, including people I find annoyingly tenacious. Those people, unlike the two of you, are less like Lenny and Squiggy and more like Laverne and Shirley.

Am I Squiggy? Please, please, please can I be Squiggy?


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#22 2004-12-05 12:44 am

debbiedowner
Member
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: 2004-11-21
Posts: 2149

Re: Weighing

FUGW and XYZ both have by your avatars Has No Life. Why? Also you are telling me that I, as a newbie, don't understand why the loss of posts is traumatic. God, I hope I never get to the point that I care about whether any of my posts stay a minute or more. They're conversations, for goodness' sake. That's all. They have little cosmic value. They should have no value to the ones who post them -- that's kissing the mirror. Their value, if they have any at all, is only for those others who read them. Those of you who claim to have no life beyond the computer, maybe this happened to let you know that it's time to get a life beyond the computer, to pay more attention to the flesh and blood around you, the people you can help. You don't understand what this forum is about, XYZ: it's about friendship, not about words. It's conversations among friends, not holy writ to be archived and preserved. It's a place where you're okay and respected and teased and appreciated sometimes (when you least expect it, like now). But it's not a temple, it's a living room. You're loving your words too much and yourself and your friends here not enough. Get your priorities straight. I hope that helps you with this weighing process. Friends are not things to walk away from with words like "permanently." No life? Keep what you  have here but spend less time (since you have friends here) but get into the flesh and blood world too. I spend time every day visiting six or seven old people in a nursing home -- a minute or two per person maybe, but I look at them, say hi to them, let them know they're neither repulsive nor invisible.  You should try it. It is a wonderful cure for the poor-mes.


Last edited by debbiedowner (Today 12:61 a.m.)
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

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#23 2004-12-05 12:45 am

Phydeaux
Watching, Listening and Waiting
From: Hopin You'll Turn Out Th'Light
Registered: 2001-05-11
Posts: 29999
Website

Re: Weighing

FUGW and XYZ both have by your avatars Has No Life. Why? Also you are telling me that I, as a newbie, don't understand why the loss of posts is traumatic. God, I hope I never get to the point that I care about whether any of my posts stay a minute or more. They're conversations, for goodness' sake. That's all. They have little cosmic value. They should have no value to the ones who post them -- that's kissing the mirror. Their value, if they have any at all, is only for those others who read them. Those of you who claim to have no life beyond the computer, maybe this happened to let you know that it's time to get a life beyond the computer, to pay more attention to the flesh and blood around you, the people you can help. You don't understand what this forum is about, XYZ: it's about friendship, not about words. It's conversations among friends, not holy writ to be archived and preserved. It's a place where you're okay and respected and teased and appreciated sometimes (when you least expect it, like now). But it's not a temple, it's a living room. You're loving your words too much and yourself and your friends here not enough. Get your priorities straight. I hope that helps you with this weighing process. Friends are not things to walk away from with words like "permanently." No life? Keep what you  have here but spend less time (since you have friends here) but get into the flesh and blood world too. I spend time every day visiting six or seven old people in a nursing home -- a minute or two per person maybe, but I look at them, say hi to them, let them know they're neither repulsive nor invisible.  You should try it. It is a wonderful cure for the poor-mes.

There's a key on your right hand side, next to your pinkie. It has a little crooked arrow on it. You should press it at random intervals sometime.


Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.

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#24 2004-12-05 12:45 am

Tria
Minor Prophetess
From: Madison, WI
Registered: 2000-05-13
Posts: 18087

Re: Weighing

See, and this is why people don't like you.  You refuse to discuss.  You have to be right, all the time, and if you're not, you just try to end the discussion.

I don't care to waste time on you and Phydeux. There are people here who I enjoy debating with, including people I find annoyingly tenacious. Those people, unlike the two of you, are less like Lenny and Squiggy and more like Laverne and Shirley.

How about adressing the post, and not the poster?

They're conversations, for goodness' sake. That's all. They have little cosmic value.

Thank you.

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#25 2004-12-05 12:46 am

XYZ
Banned
Registered: 2000-07-03
Posts: 10881

Re: Weighing

Because, you know, I have to use concrete logic when you're dealing with your emotions of misplaced time management. Right.

Why is it that reading your recent posts is like looking into a bin at a cafeteria? Everything is mixed up, practically incomprehensible... and smelly.

Why not, instead of posting blurry and callow barbs... post something insightful and well-intentioned?


there's really no need for all of this

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