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Well - we don't have one, it was probably written on scroll - and if (big if) it survived until 605 BCE it most likely was carried off in the ark of the covenant.

No problem. Indiana Jones found that one for us duing WWII.  That must be the source of the material they used for carbon dating.

Oh... sorry.

For? Indie rules.

I've got one for you:

What makes the bible fundementally better than, say, the Koran? Or a Calvin and Hobbes collection?

Or, at that rate, what makes, say, the King James version better than , say, the NIV, or any other version?

No offense to anyone. I just have a hard time understanding such great value people put into it.

I've got one for you:

What makes the bible fundementally better than, say, the Koran? Or a Calvin and Hobbes collection?

True divine inspiration. Believing it's from God's mouth to the listener's ears to paper. If you don't believe that, then of course it's a silly book.

Or, at that rate, what makes, say, the King James version better than , say, the NIV, or any other version?

The NIV was written by a Satanist. KJV was Church-'o-England issued. Thus far, the KJV is the best, non-politically influenced version that's been translated into our language.

Okay, considering those points,
What about St. Joseph edition and all the others?

My memory is shaky, but as I recall the idea of using carbon dating to determine the age of some fragments of the bible was just one of a few theories the professor discussed, and he did of course note that carbon dating is one of the most ridiculed forms of scientific examination--it's just a theory I put out for discussion.

Why is it that when I show studies in which freshly-killed seals were carbon-dated to 1300 years, everyone tells me that Carbon-dating is inaccurate +/- 5,000 years, but when carbon-dating the Bible, everyone tells me that the dates are 200 years off to be valid?

Either way, the liberal arguments are invalid. They try to tell me that it works when dating things that will make them look good (the Bible), but then say it's highly inaccurate when dating things that will destroy their arguments (the freshly killed seal).

Found on a random web site

Are There Things That Can't Be Carbon-Dated?

Yes. The method doesn't work on things which didn't get their carbon from the air. This leaves out aquatic creatures, since their carbon might (for example) come from dissolved carbonate rock. That causes a dating problem with any animal that eats seafood.

Make sense that the seal example might not represent the full validity of the process.  Nor does a really old reference in a field that has progress significantly since particularly impress me.


BTW: other potential contradictions in the bible.  The genealogies of joseph.  The timeline of who was at the tomb when and what they found/saw.  In broader terms there is a theological conflict between the apocalyptic but decidedly not eschatological message of most of jesus and the decidedly eschatological focus of rev, thessalonians, etc.  The times of the passion narrative are different between john and the synoptic (indeed, john puts the passion on thursday and not friday).  Those are all that I can come up with off the top of my head.

What makes the bible fundementally better than, say, the Koran? Or a Calvin and Hobbes collection?

Now this is blasphemy.  Nothing is better than a Calvin and Hobbes collection, you heathen!

Im SORRY! CRAP!
I'll do 50.... 50..... well, 50 whatever it'll end up being when the bible is fully updated.

Wait, lets see.

So god, would you like me to get some action and make some cash on the side for this? If so, give me no sign....

....
....
.....
......
.......

sweeeeeet

Okay, I've posted a rough draft of the first chapter of Genesis.

I asked God to inspire me when I wrote it, so you know it's 110% accurate. I think he wanted to both clear up the issue and obfuscate it a bit, but then again, how would I know what God wanted? I only wrote what he inspired in me.

Here it is.

Nice story.
Yet I don't believe that you believe.

unlike the christians, my beliefs do not require that you do.

sorry, morpheus.

it is just a matter of time before resedit reduces himself to the pot kettle black anti-intellectualism....

fwiw, i tend to agree that a fundamentalist view is the only "true" view to have in a religion...




of course, i also believe that religion is a bunch of made up crap.  so, it's a back handed compliment, at best.

indeed, i have respect for a believer, as deceived as he may be.  just remember what "being secular" means....

the recognition in our constitution that religion must be a private thing, for it is indeed the illusion of the mind of the individual, faith - and not applicable to a civilized society.

(okay, it probably doesn't say it quite like that.... but it's implied)

it is just a matter of time before resedit reduces himself to the pot kettle black anti-intellectualism....

It's just a matter of time before every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord - just as the prophecy predicts.

By the sword, if necessary?

I'm sorry to say it - but now (and I am talking the Revelation of John here) that *may* be a reality. Now I'm not at all an expert of the last book of the Bible and I do not claim to understand it - but this is the vague understanding I have that may be incorrect.

The two prophets will come to the Earth - I think they are literal prophets, but not positive - and they will do many signs, as described in the Revelation of John (RoJ from here on)

However, God will allow them to be killed, and the entire world will rejoice in their death, but they shall be raised from the dead.

Revelation 11 (RSV):

9 For three days and a half men from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb,   10 and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.   11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

Now - this is the part that comes directly after - that I believe addresses your question:

12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up hither!" And in the sight of their foes they went up to heaven in a cloud.   13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.  14 The second woe has passed; behold, the third woe is soon to come.

What a merciful god...

It's interesting how closely that parallels a Vaisnava myth about the end of this cycle of the world.  God will take birth again on earth, and all the non believers will be killed.  Then all the people again assume their original form as a part of God and the universe is unmade.

Or at least I think that's how it goes...  We got a little fuzzy (class was ending) after the "kills all the non believers".

That's always kind of bugged me...  Why should Mother Teresa go to the same heaven as the axe murderer who repents on his death bed?

That's always kind of bugged me...  Why should Mother Teresa go to the same heaven as the axe murderer who repents on his death bed?

Because both have been forgiven of their sins.
Jesus told a parable about this - I can't remember exactly where.
Maybe Thrica can pipe in.

A master goes out and hires some hands, and they work.
Later in the day, he hires some more, and they work.
Later in the day, he hires some more, and they work.

At the end of the day they all get paid the same wage.
Those who were hired first complains, and are told it's not their money to dictate how the master spends it. Or something like that.

The story of Jonah is another example.
Jonah didn't want to go to the Assyrians because they were an evil people, and he was mad at God for having mercy on them when they repented - because they had been such evil people.

God basically tells Jonah it's not his place to be mad.

All of us have sinned - why should Mother Theresa begrudge God for forgiving an Axe murderer - when she herself had sins that God forgave?