Forums | MacLife

This was taken from the forums of another game, but its an awsome bit of info. Most important is the info about the 9600's that can be put in older G4 towers.

This thread is for the discussion of Mac Video chipsets and upgrade options. The upgrade options are only for PowerMacs. You cannot upgrade other models' graphics chipsets. Some models have VRAM upgrade options but must be upgraded as a CTO option. You cannot upgrade those models' VRAM after purchase. I'll add more information when I can. Note: these are listings of 100% Mac compatible cards and not flashed/unsupported cards. I will not be listing flashed or other unsupported options. I would prefer not discussing such cards in this thread. If you would like to discuss unsupported cards, please start a different topic. I would like to keep this thread about officially supported cards.

Performance note:
Shadowbane is a game which pushes both the CPU and GPU. Both can be bottlenecks. You can have the fastest card available for your system, but if it cannot be fed fast enough, you may not notice as much of a performance difference. It's often best to pair up a GPU upgrade with a comparable CPU.

v. 1.0 Pulled from the old Mac Troubleshooting thread.
v. 2.0 Added more information about G4 compatible cards and OEM cards
v. 2.1 Added Radeon 9200 (oops!) and some OEM comments for the 9600, GF4MX, and FX 5200
v. 2.2 Added GeForce 6800 GT DDL (oops!)
v. 2.3 Added X850 XT. Updated GeForce 6800 GT/Ultra DDL
v. 2.4 Added info on the upcoming true Retail Radeon 9600 Pro, recommended upgrades, and a few more notes.
v. 2.5 Added info regarding ATI's fall line-up regarding Radeon 9800 Pro consolidation and X800 XT price drop.
v. 2.6 Cleaned up some. Added an addendum to include chipsets released since the iBook summer 05 update.
v. 2.7 Added some information about the Radeon X1900 GT and XT PCI-E cards.

Card model (Type Interface VRAM Output) Brief desc
Recommended upgrades: List of cards which are more powerful.


ATI Radeon 7000 (Retail PCI 32|64 VGA|DVI|SVideo)
Dual output support. This came out after the Radeon and was the lowend model. Only available in PCI. It went through a couple of name changes before it was finally released. It is less powerful than the 7200. It has no hardware TCL or shader support. Definitely not recommended.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9200 PCI

ATI Radeon aka Radeon 7200 (OEM|Retail PCI|AGP 32 VGA|DVI|SVideo)
Single output only. This is the original Radeon. It has hardware Transform, Clipping, and Lighting but no vertex/pixel shader support. Not really recommended.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9000 Pro, Radeon 8500, GeForce 3, GeForce 4Ti, Radeon 9800 Pro. If PCI, Radeon 9200 PCI

NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX (OEM AGP 32|64 VGA|ADC)
The first NVIDIA based card to ship for Macs. It is roughly equivalent in performance to the Radeon 7200. This model came in multiple versions. The single head version came with 32 MB. The TwinView model (dual head support) came with 64 MB. I know they were introduced standard SDRAM but later models may have had DDR-SDRAM.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9000 Pro, Radeon 8500, GeForce 3, GeForce 4Ti, Radeon 9800 Pro.

ATI Radeon 7500 (OEM AGP 32 DVI|ADC)
The same as the Radeon 7200 but clocked higher and dual output support. Also built into certain eMacs. A Mobility version is in certain models of the PowerBook G4s (PowerBook G4 "DVI" models 667|800MHz). Slightly better performance than a 7200 but for it probably wouldn't make that much difference. I think all cards listed below support dual output so I won't listed it as a feature anymore.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9000 Pro, Radeon 8500, GeForce 3, GeForce 4Ti, Radeon 9800 Pro.

NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX (OEM AGP 32|64 DVI|ADC)
This was rumored to be what was suppose to be a GeForce 3 MX or a clocked up GF2MX. I don't believe it offers any new features over the GF2MX. Performance will be about the same as the Radeon 7500. Model was introduced as a 64 MB part with the Quicksilver G4s. Downgraded to 32 MB with the MDD G4s. Mobile versions were used in the original 12" and 17" PowerBook G4s. Not recommended for, but if it's built in... start saving your change for a new machine.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9000 Pro, Radeon 8500, GeForce 3, GeForce 4Ti, Radeon 9700 Pro, Radeon 9800 Pro.

ATI Radeon 9200 (OEM|Retail 32|128 VGA|DVI|SVideo)
The 9200 is basically the same as the 9000 but with support for AGP 8X. This doesn't really mean much on the Mac side since the only Retail version is a PCI card. It's the fastest Mac compatible PCI card and probably the last. Do not buy this card as an AGP replacement if you have an AGP based system. The OEM versions are built in versions of iBooks and eMacs as well as the Mac mini. May suffer from the same driver issue which plagues Radeon 9000s.
Recommended upgrades: None that are PCI based

ATI Radeon 9000 Pro (OEM|Retail 64|128 DVI|ADC)
Released as a low end version of the Radeon 8500. Roughly equivalent performance to that card. It is missing a texture unit and vertex shader compared to the 8500 but it is clocked higher, offers better memory management, and can apply more textures per pass (6 vs 3 on the 8500), which evens out performance in a number of games. Not too bad for WoW but if you can get a better card, start saving your money. Mobility version used in the final generation Titanium PowerBook G4s (867|1 GHz models). Note: There is an issue which affects some Radeon 9000 Pro cards which can cause system freezes. There's along standing driver issue which can affect other applications as well.
Recommended upgrades: GeForce 4Ti, Radeon 9700 Pro, Radeon 9800 Pro. If AGP 4X motherboard, Radeon 9600 Pro

ATI Radeon 8500 (OEM|Retail 64 VGA|DVI|SVideo)
Radeon's flagship retail card at the time of shipping. An OEM model was available for Xserves. Should offer a bit better performance than the 9000 Pro due to one more texture unit and one more vertex shader. Offers decent performance. Roughly the same as the 9000 Pro.
Recommended upgrades: GeForce 4Ti, Radeon 9700 Pro, Radeon 9800 Pro. If AGP 4X motherboard, Radeon 9600 Pro

NVIDIA GeForce 3 (OEM 64 DVI|ADC)
This was THE big named NVIDIA card everyone hoped for when rumors first started that Apple was talking to NVIDIA about Mac OS support. It was first introduced to the world in a Mac and was suppose to ship first for Macs but because of delays in the OEM parts (driver issues?), the PC versions shipped first. Roughly equivalent to the Radeon 8500 and 9000 Pro.
Recommended upgrades: GeForce 4Ti, Radeon 9700 Pro, Radeon 9800 Pro. If AGP 4X motherboard, Radeon 9600 Pro

NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra (OEM 64|128 DVI|ADC)
Pretty much the laughing stock of the G5 cards. Let's take last years lowend card and use it! Two years in a row even! This is technically capable of doing more stuff than the GF4Ti but in raw horsepower, there's no comparison. The GF4Ti is a faster card. But the FX5200 supports ARB Fragment Programs in hardware which is required for hardware accelerated CoreImage (note, not a gaming technology, but AFP can be used for gaming). The original G5 iMacs used this chipset. It's also used in the current 12" PowerBook G4.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9600 Pro, Radeon 9800 Pro

NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti (OEM 128 DVI|ADC)
Very powerful card for its time. It was the top of the line Mac card until the introduction of the very brief OEM 9700 Pro. Should run great.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9600 Pro, Radeon 9800 Pro

ATI Radeon 9550 (OEM AGP 32)
This video chipset is included in the new iBooks. It's about the same clockspeed as the Radeon 9200 but supports the same features as the 9600 chipsets.
Recommended upgrades: None. Built-in

ATI Radeon 9600 Pro (OEM AGP 64 DVI|ADC)
This the cheapest card you can get through a retailer ($99). It would show the least amount of performance boost, but a boost nonetheless. WoW should be easily playable at lower resolutions (1280x1024 and below). May become more choppy at higher resolutions. The only place seling these cards is Other World Computing (http://www.macsales.com). They are the OEM Radeon 9600 Pro cards used in the first revision of the G5. You won't get any official tech support from ATI, but you will from OWC. Clocked slower than most manufacturers clock their 9600 Pros for PCs. These can be used in G4s with a little modification. OWC sells ones that are already modified for use in G4s. Using these modded cards in a G5 will result in a card which only runs at AGP 4X.
Recommended upgrades: Any Radeon 9800, Radeon X800 XT, any GeForce 6800

ATI Radeon 9600 Pro (Retail AGP 256 DVI)
Because the features are significant than the old Radeon 9600 Pros I split it off into a seperate description. The board is apparently based on the Radeon 9650. It has 256 MB of VRAM and can run one 30 inch Apple Cinema Display. But's going to be AGP 4X only 256 since it's targeted at the G4 market. Interestingly enough, it will also be Windows compatible, a first for ATI. But at $200 some may thing it's a bit much. But it's the first consumer targeted card for both Macs and Windows which can run a 30" ACD. I'm not sure if this means all new ATI products will be Mac and PC compatible.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9800 Pro (G4), any Radeon 9800 (G5 only), Radeon X800 XT (G5 only), any GeForce 6800 (G5 only)

The ATI Radeon 9600 (OEM AGP 128 DVI)
Comes as the standard card in the current G5 systems (dual 2.0|2.3). This and the 9650 are sort of a mystery. Apple doesn't list a Pro or XT designation. On the brief research I've done someone mentioned that their Radeon 9600 was an RV351, which is the same chipset as the 9650. But System Profiler listed it as a 9600 Pro. This chipset is now built into the latest eMacs and iMacs. Until I see clock rates listed for all of the 96xx models I won't know for sure how this compares to the old 9600 Pro. Might be able to modify for G4 use. Two single link DVI ports.
Recommended upgrades: Any Radeon 9800 (G5 only), Radeon X800 XT (G5 only), any GeForce 6800 (G5 only)

The ATI Radeon 9650 (OEM AGP 256 DVI)
Comes as the standard card in the current top end G5 system (dual 2.7). This and the 9600 are sort of a mystery. Apple doesn't list a Pro or XT designation. On the brief research I've done someone mentioned that their Radeon 9600 was an RV351, which is the same chipset as the 9650. If I get more information I'll update this and the 9600. One single link DVI port and one dual link DVI for native resolution support for the 30" Apple Cinema Display. Might be able to modify for G4 use.
Recommended upgrades: Any Radeon 9800 (G5 only), Radeon X800 XT (G5 only), any GeForce 6800 (G5 only)

The ATI Radeon 9600 XT (OEM AGP 128 DVI|ADC)
The most powerful of the 96xx cards. The version in Macs is also clocked slower than most 9600 XTs in PC land. It was clocked to the same level as most PC manufacturers clocked their 9600 Pros. Lots of overclocking potential. There seem to be a rather high number of bad 9600 XTs that shipped. Mine included. Can also be modded to use in G4s.
Recommended upgrades: Any Radeon 9800 (G5 only), Radeon X800 XT (G5 only), any GeForce 6800 (G5 only)

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (OEM AGP 128 DVI|ADC)
The most powerful ADC native card you can drop in a G4. Extremely rare. When it was first released for PCs it took the gaming world by storm. ATI actually released something that completely owned whatever NVIDIA had to offer. It was the fastest video card out there at the time by a fairly noticeable margin. Should run great.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon 9800 Pro (G4)

ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (OEM|Retail AGP 128|256 DVI|ADC VGA|DVI|SVideo)
It comes in two flavors for the G5s. The 128 MB model is backwards compatible with G4s but this means the card only runs at a max of AGP 4x due to some issues with Apple's AGP ports in the G4s. It also has SVideo, VGA, and DVI outputs. It also requires a power cable. The 256 model, aka Mac Special Edition, only works in G5 and gets it's power via the AGP Pro slot so it's much easier to install. It also runs at full AGP 8x (which translates to not much in real world comparisons to AGP 4x) and ADC and DVI outputs. The two cards have a MSRP of $250 and $300 respectively. Street price is typically cheaper. This is THE card to get for G4 owners. If paired with a good CPU (dual 1.2 or higher, or single 1.4 or higher) WoW should run decently. In a G5, the game flies.
edit: ATI is replacing the G4 compatible version with one which has 256 MB of RAM. Good news for G4 owners, more confusion for prospective buyers

Fall 2005 update: ATI is consolidating the Radeon 9800 Pro cards into one Mac version. It is the rumored G4 compatible Radeon 9800 Pro w/ 256 MB of RAM. The G5 only Mac Special Edition is being fazed out.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon X800 XT (G5 only), any GeForce 6800 (G5 only)

ATI Radeon 9800 XT (OEM AGP 256 DVI|ADC)
Same as the 9800 Pros but clocked faster. Only fits in G5s due to the use of an AGP Pro connector. Runs great.
Recommended upgrades: Radeon X800 XT (G5 only), any GeForce 6800 (G5 only)

ATI Radeon X800 XT (Retail AGP 256 DVI|ADC)
Currently the fastest retail ATI card available. It has 256 MB of VRAM, only works in G5s. It has one ADC port and one dual link DVI port which allows you to run a 30" Apple Cinema Display at its native resolution.
Fall update MSRP $400 (was $500).

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL (OEM AGP 256 DVI)
Virtually identical to the 6800 Ultra DDL but clocked slightly slower. New top of the line BTO NVIDIA card. Roughly $500 if it were available separately. $350-$400 as a BTO upgrade.

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL (OEM AGP 256 DVI)
Fastest NVIDIA card available. G5 only. Its cooling system takes up the PCI slot next to the AGP port. Two dual link DVI so it can run two 30" ACDs. MSRP $600. No longer available for BTO.

ATI Radeon X850 XT (OEM AGP 256 DVI|ADC) NEW
Currently the fastest ATI card available. It has 256 MB of VRAM, only works in G5s. It has one ADC port and one dual link DVI port which allows you to run a 30" Apple Cinema Display at its native resolution. Based on the ports, probably uses the same PCB design as the retail X800 XT. Roughly $500 if it were available separately. $350-$400 as a BTO upgrade.

The X850 is brand new and no benchmarks have been released. But based on the PC specs, it's faster than the X800.

Both the X800 and 6800 are roughly equivalent in Mac gaming benchmarks. The advantage of the GF 6800 is that it has newer hardware features that the X800 doesn't have. However, most people probably won't notice a difference when those features are finally used.

One of the advantages for the X800 is that it can use ATI Displays. Some benchmarks have also shown the X800 faster with FSAA and Anisotropic Filtering enabled.